Representative Boggs.

Afternoon Session

Testimony of Robert A. Frazier Resumed

Representative Boggs.

The President's Commission reconvened at 2:10 p.m.

Mr. Mccloy.

You are still under oath, you know.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Eisenberg.

I would like to begin by clearing up a few items which have been covered or left open during the morning session.
First, you were going to supply us with certain figures concerning the times which were taken by two of the Agents to fire three shots in the first series of tests which were made for determining the accuracy of the firing under rapid-fire conditions.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; that was at two targets. The first one I gave Killion fired in 9 seconds. The other was a target marked Cunningham and Frazier. Cunningham fired his three shots in 8 seconds and I fired my three shots in 5.9 seconds.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Now also you had made certain calculations concerning what we have been calling the lead that had to be given to a target, assuming various factors which were supplied to you. Do you have those calculations now?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; the lead would amount to shooting over the target at 175 feet, a distance of 6.7 inches, and the decimal on that figure is not an accurate decimal because this figure relates to an average velocity of ammunition of this type, and is concerned with a speed of a vehicle which is also estimated, and a distance which may or may not be exactly accurate.
But at a ground speed of 11 miles an hour, it would be necessary to shoot over or lead a target 6.7 inches for the bullet to hit the intended spot on the target At 265 feet the lead would be .51 feet, or 6.1 inches.
I might say that the variation, that of less lead at the longer distance, is in great part due to the fact that the target is farther away and that the shot is more nearly in line with the direction in which the target is moving, which would account for much of the drop in the amount of lead.
And, in addition, I calculated this on the basis of the fact that there was a slight slope between the 175-foot and the 265-foot location downwards away from the shooter, which would also tend to more nearly cause the target to be moving in the same path as the bullet.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And did you convert those lead distances into the amount of inches which the shooter would have to sight above the head, above the point of the target?

Mr. Frazier.

Those figures I gave were the elevations or the sighting distances above the target. The 6.7 inches vertical lead or sighting over the target is the equivalent of leading on the ground of 1.4 feet.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And that table also shows leads at other car speeds?

Mr. Frazier.

This table I could calculate them--it only shows miles per hour translated into feet per second.

Mr. Eisenberg.

I mean, does it show various miles per hour?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; it shows miles per hour in feet per second.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Without going into detail at this time, may I have permission to introduce this table into evidence?

Mr. Mccloy.

It may be admitted.

Mr. Eisenberg.

This will be Commission Exhibit 560.
(The item identified as Commission Exhibit No. 560 was received in evidence.)

Mr. Eisenberg.

Now, Mr. Frazier, in the construction of this table and also in your last tests for rapid fire for this rifle, you used a five-and-a-half second figure as a factor in your calculations, and in your attempt at rapid fire accuracy placements. Can you give us the source of that figure?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir. You were the source of it, based on examination, as I understood it, of a movie taken at the scene, and measurements taken at the scene. However, I have no knowledge of the actual time.

Mr. Eisenberg.

For the record, I just wanted to establish that this is a