Mr. Ball.

Tell me about how many minutes you think it was from the time you obtained the address of Lee Oswald until you told Captain Fritz the name and address?

Mr. Truly.

I think it was immediately.

Mr. Ball.

Immediately?

Mr. Truly.

Immediately, after I called to the warehouse and got his name and address in Irving, I turned around and walked over and told Captain Fritz at that time.

Mr. Ball.

Chief Lumpkin?

Mr. Truly.

Yes; Chief Lumpkin. Mr. BALL. Yes; Chief Lumpkin.

Mr. Truly.

And I remember Chief Lumpkin talking to two or three officers and I stepped back and he went ahead and told them a few things--it could have been 2 or 3 or 4 minutes.

Mr. Ball.

Not over that?

Mr. Truly.

I don't believe so, and then he came to me and said, "All right, Mr. Truly, let's go up and see Captain Fritz and tell him this."

Mr. Ball.

Then, if the gun wasn't found until after 1:10, you think it might have been as late as 1:05 or so before you discovered that Oswald wasn't there?

Mr. Truly.

It could be--it could have been.

Mr. Ball.

You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there?

Mr. Truly.

No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that.

Mr. Ball.

Before you discovered Oswald wasn't there?

Mr. Truly.

That's right, and at such time that you have information of the officers taking the names of the workers in the warehouse over in and around the wrapping tables, it was at such time that I noticed that this boy wasn't among the other workers.

Mr. Ball.

You remember you had seen him on the second floor, didn't you?

Mr. Truly.

That's right.

Mr. Ball.

That's when you were with Officer Baker?

Mr. Truly.

That's right.

Mr. Ball.

Now, you heard that Tippit had been shot, didn't you?

Mr. Truly.

Not after--until after I had told Chief Lumpkin and Captain Fritz and come back down to the first floor, then I learned that he had been shot. The first I learned of it--there was a young officer ran in the front door and told another officer, possibly a lieutenant, that there was an officer shot in Oak Cliff and that was all I knew at that time. I did not know that they had captured Oswald then. Later on a newspaper reporter told me.

Mr. Ball.

Now, you say that you knew that Givens was not there afterwards?

Mr. Truly.

I knew he wasn't there at the time of the shooting because I had seen him walk across the street--up the street.

Mr. Ball.

Toward what?

Mr. Truly.

Up Elm Street across Houston.

Mr. Ball.

Toward Main---down toward Main?

Mr. Truly.

I saw him walking on the north side of Elm, crossing Houston--on the north side of Elm crossing Houston. However, at that time I saw two other boys with him and I later learned, I believe, that it was James Jarman and possibly Harold Norman-- there were two or three---they were all standing in the crowd close to myself and they- stared across Houston Street up Elm. I didn't see them turn over to the right across Elm.

Mr. Ball.

Wait a minute you saw Norman and Jarman with Givens in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building first, didn't you?

Mr. Truly.

Right; sometime earlier--a good deal-- a little while before the shooting--I believe they were the three.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see Jarman and Norman going across Elm?

Mr. Truly.

I'm pretty sure there was the three of them.